Michigan Therapists who take Harvard Pilgrim/UnitedHealthcare

Hello, my name is Eric Dungan and I'm a Board Certified Diplomate in Clinical Social Worker. I attended University of Louisville. I specialize in PTSD, Grief, loss, Depression, Anxiety, Marriage and Family and Anger Management. I have years of experience in the field of mental health care. I strive to help people attain their maximize potential in all aspects of their lives, using several different treatments modalities. All sessions are focused, to provide a nonjudgmental and objective environment to help the patient view their struggles with a new objective fair perspective towards themselves and other significant people and events in their lives.

I am a licensed social worker in the state of Michigan with over 20 years of professional experience working with families, adults, children, adolescents and in group settings. I have experience in helping clients with stress management and anxiety, depression, trauma and abuse, & motivation, self-esteem, and confidence. My goal is to create an open and safe environment where thoughts and feelings can be shared without fear of judgment. Giving a listening ear, feedback and creating goals with clients that help see their own path to well-being. It takes courage to seek out a more fulfilling and happier life and to take the first steps towards a change. I am here to support & empower you in that journey. I am excited to work with you and eager to get started!

Welcome! I am a clinical social worker licensed in Michigan with 30 years of experience in the field and 7 years providing mental health therapy using evidenced based practices. I currently provide school based mental health services in a district with high acuity. Prior to that I was a full-time therapist for a mental health agency. I have worked extensively with children, adolescents and adults. I received my Bachelor of Social Work from Northern Michigan University in 1991 and my Master of Social Work from Michigan State University in 2003. I am a certified EMDR therapist and have certification in trauma focused cognitive behavioral therapy. I am trained in full model Dialectical behavioral therapy and incorporate these evidenced based treatments into my practice.

Hello! I'm a Licensed Professional Counselor in Michigan with 16 years of experience. I have worked extensively with young and middle-aged adults on concerns ranging from depression, anxiety, substance abuse and PTSD/trauma to eating disorders, relationship challenges and academic & career transition issues. If you choose to work with me, you can expect a safe and non-judgmental space to share your concerns with a supportive, active listener. Together we can work collaboratively towards concrete solutions that address your individual needs. I am passionate about the mind-body-spirit connection in both my professional and personal life. I am an avid runner and former college athlete, practice regular meditation for my own stress management and personal growth, and spend lots of time in nature and the outdoors with my family (husband and two boys aged 7 and 11) in all seasons kayaking, camping, hiking, and skiing/snowboarding.

Mental health is a fundamental aspect of overall well-being and should be accessible to everyone. We provide an inclusive environment that respects and celebrates the diversity of our clients and our community. Our practice recognizes that everyone brings unique experiences, perspectives, and cultural identities to the therapeutic process. We provide culturally sensitive care that honors these differences and addresses each client's needs. Our mental health professionals prioritize ongoing learning in cultural competence and anti-bias practices to ensure our services are effective for everyone. We welcome clients of all cultures, races, ethnicities, genders, identities, abilities, and life experiences. We understand the importance of tailoring our approach to honor each person’s journey. We aim to create a safe and supportive space where everyone can feel seen, heard, and validated.

Hello there, my name is Michelle Fitzhugh. I am a Licensed Professional Counselor, here to serve young your mental health needs. I am committed to creating a safe space, while meeting my clients right where they are. I strive to help clients feel empowered by remaining them of the strength they already possess within. Whatever weight you are carrying, I am here to support and encourage you. I utilize a variety of techniques, including (but not limited to), Mindfulness Therapy, Solution-Focused Therapy, CBT, increasing self-worth, empowerment, self-esteem, and work/life balance. My expertise are in the areas of anxiety, depression, coping, adjustment disorders, trauma, life stressors, postpartum, and self discovery. As I for a collaborative relationship with my clients, my goal is to provide a listening ear, guidance, and new strategies that will help you heal and achieve your ultimate mental health dreams/goals. You are not alone, let's unpack some of life's difficulties together.

This is my 26th year as a Therapist/Social Worker. I have vast experience working in the public school system, mental health, foster care, and adoption. I have experience working with children and families with special education disabilities, anger management, depression, anxiety, PTSD, and trauma. I am experienced working with individuals, families, couples, people with different abilities, mental and emotional challenges.

Hello! I am a Licensed Masters Level Social Worker practicing in the State of Michigan for 26 years. I received my bachelor's and master's degrees in social work from Michigan State University. My practice has centered around supporting parents, children and individuals that have struggle with depression, anxiety, and anger management challenges develop effective strategies that enable them to enjoy more out of life and find hope.

Hi I'm Gaby. If you have been feeling sick and stuck in a negative thought process and wondering if there is anyone who can understand or help you, let's talk. I am here to help you experience change and escape from the pattern of life that has left you feeling different, unwell, and stuck. I am first and foremost a Trauma Informed Recovery Therapist. This means that I believe in you and I believe in your goals and I know we can find a way to get there while acknowledging all that you have been through. I realized I wanted to become a therapist during a serendipitous summer camp experience—40 feet in the air on the high ropes course, I learned that I loved helping people process challenging experiences in creative ways. I love using a lot of different approaches depending on what we are working on. Some of my favorite methods are cognitive behavioral therapy, positive psychology, strength based therapy, and psychodynamic therapy. I have been doing individual therapy with teens and adults of all ages since 2020. Previously, I worked as a clinical consultant, clinical director, and clinical supervisor in specialized mental health rehabilitation settings. I have been supporting people in creating and meeting their goals since 2012. I have used all of my past work experiences to learn how to work with clients to explore dreams, and strengths, and learn how to make these things their reality. I use eclectic strategies to support people as they sort through their lives and figure out ways to move forward in a new light. I believe that therapy is a special space that allows a person to sit, process, and problem-solve in a way that can’t always be done in day-to-day.

Hello my name is a Camille, I’m have been a licensed Social worker in the state of Michigan for the past 18 years as well as a certified addictions counselor. I specialize in anxiety, depression, and addiction issues. I work with my clients to create an open and safe environment where thoughts and feelings can be shared without fear of judgment.

I am passionate about helping each person navigate life’s challenges and heal from personal trauma. By blending Humanistic and Behavioral-based therapies, I create a compassionate, supportive space where clients feel safe to explore and grow. My approach empowers you to overcome obstacles, build resilience, and achieve meaningful, lasting change in a way that aligns with your personal goals and values.

I am a Licensed Professional Counselor based in AZ. I also hold licenses in MI, PA and TX. I graduated from Messiah University with a Master’s in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and have been working in the field for 8 years. I really enjoy working with couples and families, but am always humbled and honored to walk through a challenging time with any client(s).

I am a licensed Social Worker in Michigan. I received my Masters in Social Work from Western Michigan University in 2000. With years of experience, I want my clients to feel heard and seen. Life can feel like a roller coaster. When your up, your up. But when you are down, you can feel many unpleasant emotions and experience situations that negatively impact your mental health and your life. I help clients who want to learn new coping skills, who are ready to improve their mindset, and who want to develop a deeper sense of self which is needed to improve their mental wellness.

Hello! I am a fully licensed social worker (LCSW) from Michigan. I received my bachelor's and Master's degree from Wayne State University. I help individuals develop coping skills during major life changes and challenges. I understand that life, particularly during major life changes, can bring many challenges. My goal is to provide a supportive space where individuals can develop positive coping strategies, enhance their emotional well-being, and navigate difficult times with confidence. I strive to foster an atmosphere of trust and compassion, helping individuals grow and overcome obstacles in a way that aligns with their unique needs and experiences

Hi! I’m Carla Brown, licensed social worker and clinical therapist. I find deep fulfillment in facilitating emotional and psychological growth in others, particularly women and people of color, who sincerely aspire to be better human beings. I’ve provided social work, case management, administrative and psychotherapy services to children and adults for thirty-eight years in Detroit, MI and Charlotte, NC. While on our journey, I’ll provide insight and supportive guidance – in plain language, without judgment - as you do important inner work. This work may involve exploring your values, learning to set boundaries and hold others accountable, recognizing personal powers, and improving the ability to think more flexibly and realistically. Our collaborative venture will ideally result in improved overall health and well-being, as you discover meaningful truths about yourself and how best to cope in this challenging world.

Hello, My Name is Octavia Trone, LMSW. I graduated with my master's in social work degree from Wayne state university in 1997. I am a compassionate, empathetic social worker and mental health therapist. My target population are adults of all ages (young, middle aged and elderly), and adults who experience depression, and bipolar diagnosis. I was in the United States Air Force as a Mental Health therapist who counseled active-duty soldiers and their families who were diagnosed with depression, and PTSD. I helped active-duty soldiers, and their families manage life challenges and daily stressors of military life.

Hi! I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker based in Southeast Michigan. I have been in the field for 9 years and received my Masters in Social Work from the University of Southern California. I have experience working with anxiety, ADHD, depression, bipolar disorder, grief, PTSD, personality disorders, substance use disorders, interpersonal relationship issues and more. I utilize CBT and mindfulness techniques such as meditation and behavioral activation to help guide you through life's many challenges and develop healthy coping skills.

*Pragmatic and Practical (me) *Strong Listener (me) *Flexible, yet structured (me) *Focus on goals, objectives, and techniques to achieve the desired life outcomes or cope with undesired shortcomings (us) *Of Accountability and Responsibility (you) *Your answers lies within (you) Summary: If you're seeking a realistic approach in modifying your current circumstances maybe I can lend some assistance. Life outcomes will have a better chance to come to fruition when one's will and subsequent expectant behavior aligns themselves accordingly. And the connection is ownership of the aforementioned. Quote: "If one is not hungry, one will not eat"

Hello, my name is Stefanie and I am a LCSW therapist dedicated to providing high-quality therapy services that prioritize your well-being and growth. My mission is to help you live your best life by embodying the values of service, competency, and kindness in my work. I understand that every individual has unique needs and goals, and I am committed to working collaboratively with you to achieve your desired outcomes. With a focus on integrity and respect, I strive to create a safe and supportive environment where you can feel heard, validated, and empowered. To help you on your journey, I utilize a variety of therapeutic approaches, including CBT and DBT as a groundwork for the therapeutic process. I also incorporate Motivational Interviewing, Solution Focused Therapy, and various non-traditional therapies, such as play therapy, to cater to your unique needs. I believe that everyone should have access to the knowledge and tools of various therapeutic modalities to get the help and support they need towards their healing. My core values of kindness, respect, and competency are the strengths that guide me in helping you achieve your goals. I recognize that the path towards stability and success is not necessarily linear, and setbacks, challenges, and barriers can arise. I am here to meet you where you're at and guide you towards your desired goal. With a focus on your story of resilience, we will work through any obstacles to help you get unstuck. Thank you for considering me as your therapist. I look forward to working with you on your journey towards healing and growth.

Hi, I am a Licensed Professional Counselor specializing in supporting individuals navigating stress, anxiety, and relationship challenges. My expertise lies in guiding clients through various obstacles, fostering those pivotal ‘a-ha’ moments when they prove most beneficial. I believe in creating a safe and empathetic space for clients to explore their feelings, gain insights, and develop coping strategies. Together, we work towards positive change and personal growth.

My name is Bri. I inspire to help clients find their inner light. I strive to help others find their strengths, gifts and purpose in life. I am a Counselor, Motivator and Positive Influencer, dedicated to help clients blossom into their destined purpose and potential in life. I leave a little sparkle everywhere I go and in every person's life that I impact. I also provide guidance to educate clients on the Laws of Attraction, and Manifestation.

When life gives you lemons, make lemonade! I am a licensed clinical social worker and enjoy helping others find that resolution to whatever stressors they are facing. I take a positive outlook approach and set my clients up for success! We do everything in “baby” steps because we want to succeed. I don’t allow my clients to set unrealistic goals and strive to help them find success in even the smallest things in life!

Hi, I am licensed clinical social worker and I have three years of experience, in providing outpatient therapy. I am very passionate about helping others be the best version of themselves. With dedication and purpose, I support clients by displaying empathy, being supportive, exploratory, strengths based, a problem solver, and solution focused. I have helped clients which experience symptoms of depression, anxiety, self-esteem concerns, life transitions/adjustments, relationship concerns and those experiencing grief.

I work with each client on a individual basis first assessing for need and history taking. The focus is on current symptoms and emotional or mental stresses that make our quality of life questioned. We then goal plan together on the most prominent and impactful issues we've talked about. From there we work on those goals each session and allow for fluidity in session content while remaining focused on goal progress and symptoms reduction or elimination.

Hi, I'm a licensed master's of social work based in Michigan with over twenty years of experience. The last eight years have been specifically in behavioral health. I'm passionate about working with adults of all ages. I thrive to provide a judgement free environment where clients have a safe space to explore and grow. I also help clients develop coping strategies and work toward their goals.

I'm a Michigan State Grad of the Masters of Social Work-Clnicial Specialty track. I come from a rural area both here in MI and in Hawaii. I am dedicted to helping those who have had some hard knocks in life and can definately relate. I have strived to fight for those in the underserved groups aned have no problem standing at the head of the line to support those I serve. In my free time, I use nature to bring me back to the positives in life. I enjoy gardening and kayaking, exploring and spending time with my loyal shepard and my family.,

Do you ever want to feel validated, heard, understood, and not judged by others? Are you still recovering from pain due to grief or trauma? Some days it feels like you are alone and misunderstood, but it does not have to be that way. Based on my experience as a clinical therapist, I specialize in working with Teens and adults focusing on but not limited to anger management, anxiety, depression, grief and loss with a vision to empower clients to feel confident, assurance within themselves, closure and normalize feelings with reasonable solutions and coping skills to manage everyday life.

As a Christian therapist, I focus on helping young adults navigate the challenges of life through a faith-based lens. I provide a supportive space where you can explore your thoughts and feelings, addressing issues like anxiety, relationships, and identity. My goal is to integrate psychological principles with biblical truths, empowering you to grow personally and spiritually as you find healing and purpose in your journey.

I have dedicated myself to developing the expertise needed to compassionately facilitate change as we work together towards meaningful and lasting solutions. I integrate traditional, alternative, and innovative evidence-based approaches to improve your well-being and overall life satisfaction. Holding dual Master's degrees in Clinical Mental Health and Pastoral Counseling, I am a Nationally Certified Counselor and Therapeutic Coach, with 15 additional certifications in my field. Drawing from years of experience, I have provided counseling in various capacities, employing best practices to address specific needs. I consistently pursue further education to stay abreast of the most effective approaches for addressing the challenges individuals encounter in today's society. My passion lies in aiding women in discovering hope and healing.

Hi, I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) based in New York and Michigan. I earned my Master in Social Work from Hunter College, New York, NY. I have been practicing for 15 years. I welcome clients/patients of all ages and backgrounds. I work with adults and children 8+. I specialize in anxiety, depression, grief/loss, PTSD, and eating disorders. Specific modalities that I may use include CBT, DBT, IPT, Existential therapy, and Supportive feedback. I am a strong ally with the LGBTQ+ community, and I am fluent in both Spanish and English.

I could list my degrees (MSW from USC), my credentials (LCSW, CFTP) and my experience (5 years of individual and couples therapy). Most of all I am a mom, a sister, a grandmom and a retired veteran. I understand life from many intersections. I know the stigma of seeing a mental health professional, but I also know that most of people that are in therapy seek treatment because they have to deal with people that refuse to seek treatment for themselves. I create a safe space to process what you have experienced, what you want to change, and what are your barriers to success.

Welcome! I am Kimberly. Are you struggling with a temporary setback or an ongoing problem? Are you wondering if there is hope for your circumstances or relationship? I can assist you. There is always HOPE. I believe that, as human beings, we all face life challenges, be they relational, personal, emotional, spiritual, or physical, and our mental health affects how we respond to these challenges. Together, we will discover new meaning in your experiences, while identifying opportunities for healing and growth. Establishing relationship is critical to successful therapeutic outcomes and as a result, my style of work is interactive, collaborative, direct, and reflective of my focus on the transforming power of relationships. Seeking therapy can feel scary, but you are making a brave choice and you deserve a safe space to heal and grow. In our sessions together, you will be an active participant and I will meet you with compassion and evidence-based techniques, so you can overcome whatever is holding you back and find hope for a new beginning. If you need a seasoned, genuine, non-judgmental, and respectful counselor, who seeks to empower you to overcome your challenges and transform your life, please contact me.

I am a mental health counselor with over 11 years experience in helping clients work toward their vision of a happy and meaningful life. I have spent most of my career working in community mental health, where I currently work full-time as a behavioral health director. I am continuing to provide counseling services with Grow as working with people in counseling is my passion and I look forward to finding out what goals you hope to accomplish!

My work focuses mainly on anxiety in men in certain phases of life. I am a Licensed Psychologist with extensive experience in clinical settings, including corporate, medical, military, community, family business, and outpatient environments. I earned my PhD from Eastern Michigan University, completed my internship at Henry Ford Hospital, and pursued a fellowship at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. My approach integrates evidence-based treatment modalities tailored to help men navigate anxiety and adjustment challenges related to career, relationships, and fatherhood. I am dedicated to helping clients gain insight, build coping strategies, and create meaningful, lasting change, empowering them to overcome challenges and lead more fulfilling lives.

I am a licensed Masters Level Social Worker, trained in CBT and DBT skills as well as supportive and grief therapy. I have over 44 yrs experience. I have experience in working with depression, women’s issues, grief, veterans issues, and domestic violence. I encourage clients to take an active role in their treatment progress. I help clients develop skills to improve coping and mood

I enjoy my career as a Licensed Therapist! It is such a privilege to serve my clients and assist them on their journey of healing. My background is in Corporate America and I changed careers in my middle age years so now I am doing exactly what I love! I am licensed in Michigan with 12 years of professional work experience. I believe in treating everyone with respect, sensitivity, and compassion in order to allow my clients to thrive. I will help you identify the things you want to be different in your life and develop skills and a plan for reaching your desired goals.

I believe in therapy as someone who has done my own clinical work since I was in my mid-twenties. I grew up in NJ and moved to Michigan to attend college and have been here since that time. I spent the first part of my career working in the foster care system with children and adolescents which I really enjoyed. That gave me a great foundation for working with the adult issues of attachment, child developmental stages that were not accomplished and struggles with current relationships. I do a lot of work with people who were raised by narcissistic parents, people who are dealing with cancer diagnosis and those with chronic or life threatening illnesses. I work with people who are addressing childhood trauma, sexual abuse or emotional abuse. I have worked with adoptees who are seeking understanding of themselves and their past. I do a lot of work with individuals transitioning from a divorce situation and all the adjustments that this involves especially in coparenting situations. I find people and their life experiences fascinating and always worth unpacking and investigating to gain a better understanding of the self as a whole being; there is always something new to learn.

Hi, my name is Angie and I’m a master’s licensed social worker and graduated from the University of Michigan. I have over 10 years of experience working with children, adolescents, families, parents, grief, domestic violence, substance misuse, and depression. I am certified in infant mental health and perinatal mental health. I have experience helping a variety of individuals and I’m sure together we can conquer whatever is causing you distress or what you are needing to process. We are all on this earth together and we need each other. I believe therapy should be a sounding board to help you work through your thoughts and feelings.

Hello all, Thanks for visiting my profile page. I am a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) in Michigan with 27 years of experience working with diverse populations in various settings community and educational settings. My approach is person-centered, aimed at meeting the unique needs of each individual. I believe that by utilizing a collaborative approach, together, we can forge to greater paths.

You deserve the opportunity to experience peace, wholeness, and flourishing in your life. Unfortunately, some of your past and present experiences may have kept you from this. As a therapist, my goal is to create a safe, non-judgemental space where you feel supported as you share, explore, and achieve the life you desire. Together, we will embrace your imperfections, increase self-awareness, and build on your strengths to help you grow as you journey toward healing and wholeness.

I am Patricia Jenkins Jones, a Clinical Social Worker with over two decades of experience specializing in transforming the lives of ambitious professionals overwhelmed by stress and anxiety. Through a unique blend of Client-Centered Therapy, CBT, and mindfulness techniques, I empower individuals to master stress, navigate life's transitions, and achieve a fulfilling work-life balance. My approach is tailored to fit the realities of your busy lifestyle, ensuring therapy becomes a transformative journey towards well-being and resilience, not just another task on your to-do list.

I was born and raised in Puerto Rico and 20 years ago I moved to Florida where I currently reside. I graduated in 2005 from Florida International University with a Masters in Mental Health Counseling. At the present time, I hold 8 state licenses that allows me to to provide Tele-health counseling in other states besides Florida; Texas, South Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, Missouri, Utah and Michigan. I am also bilingual (English and Spanish) and I have more than 10 years of experience in the mental health and social services arena.

I am a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist that focuses on just that, marriages and families. My skills base also benefits individual clients, given that many issues center around their relationship and/or family. I have lived in many states all over the country but spent most of my childhood in San Diego. I currently live in Michigan with my blended family of twin step-sons, daughter, son, two dogs, and husband.

Hello! I am a licensed therapist (LMSW) in Michigan with 18 years of professional work experience. I have experience in helping clients with stress and anxiety, depression, relationship issues, intimacy, positive parenting & anger management. I believe that you are the expert of your story and that you have many strengths that will assist you in overcoming anything that challenges you. Taking the first step to seeking a more fulfilling and happier life takes courage. I am here to support you in that process. I look forward to our time together!

Naomi Adams is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) Licensed Clinical Addictions Counselor (LCAC) a Licensed Social Worker (LMSW) in the State of Michigan, and a Certified Life Coach. I am specially trained in anxiety, depression, grief, suicidal and trauma recovery. I also specialize in guiding clients in empowerment through increasing their self worth and developing skills that increase their effectiveness.

Hi, I’m Stephanie. I provide clinical mental health therapy and substance abuse treatment in both Michigan and Wisconsin. I have 9 years of experience in helping clients recover from addiction, regulate moods, manage anger, increase motivation, reduce anxiety, improve self-esteem and confidence, and overcome career difficulties. At some point in everyone’s life, we all need someone to help us navigate our way, so signing up for therapy was taking your first courageous step. You may be experiencing a major setback, but it isn’t the end—it’s an opportunity for change. I look forward to getting to know you, your story, and how we can improve it together.

Hello! I am Alana and I am a licensed master social worker. I have been working for the past 6+ years in multiple different settings. Currently I work in a school as a school social worker with children ages 3-12. I have also worked in a community mental health that I served multiple populations. I look forward to working with more people and assisting them with their goals.

Hello, Grow Therapy People! My name is Melody Pillow at Heart 2 Heart Holistic Counseling, LLC and I have real heart-to-heart talks with clients. I am a Licensed Master Clinical Social Worker (LMSW/LCHello, Grow Therapy People! My name is Melody Pillow at Heart 2 Heart Holistic Counseling, LLC. Do you hesitate to go to therapy because you feel that you wouldn’t get much out of it? Are you reluctant because you don’t feel comfortable talking about your problems? Let me assure you I understand that therapy can be hard work and that your feelings are valid. I let you be in control of your sessions and adapt my style for what you need whether it be directive, non-directive, or otherwise. My specialty is working with women and men who suffer from childhood trauma. Together, we can work on identifying the root cause of trauma triggers and find healing from inner wounds. Using a Holistic Wellness approach we will address the needs of your mind, body, and spirit connection. I integrate a strengths-based approach that focuses on your uniqueness so that you can develop a stronger sense of confidence, and self-compassion. Whether you're dealing with overwhelming anxiety or depression, codependent relationships or parenting issues that stem from the cycle of abuse, I'm here to help restore your peace of mind. I also help pregnant women who suffer from postpartum depression, have difficulty bonding or attaching to their baby, or have other parenting problems which often stem from not having a healthy parent role model. You deserve a safe space to heal and grow. In our sessions together, we will delve deep into discussions so that you can overcome the pain and hurt that is holding you back from your best life. Let’s have a Heart 2 Heart Talk!

Hello, I am a licensed therapist with more than 9 years of experience working with individuals, couples and families. I work with adults and teenagers who seek help with depression, anxiety, trauma and relationship concerns. I also have experience working with those in crisis and those looking for support in tough times. I also work with clients of diverse cultural backgrounds. I am a male therapist of Asian Indian background and work with clients from various backgrounds. My style of therapy is centered around your preferences and can be tailored to meet your needs. I work with you so that you can set the agenda and goals and pace of therapy.

Greetings, I am so glad you found me! I am a licensed professional counselor (LPC) with 20 years of experience based in Michigan. I am a Hope Advocate because I know that capturing and maintaining hope fuels a growth mindset and a resilient spirit! I find fulfillment in meeting clients where they are and helping them identify and achieve their personal goals in order to create the life they desire. I believe that you are the expert of your story and master builder of your future self. I look forward to supporting you in that journey.