Optum Therapists in Ohio

Finding a therapist who accepts Optum insurance can make accessing mental health support more manageable and affordable. With 222 verified therapists in Ohio who accept Optum insurance, you can filter by therapeutic approaches such as cognitive behavioral therapy, interpersonal therapy, and solution-focused therapy to address issues like anxiety, depression, or relationship challenges. Each Grow Therapy-verified therapist is currently welcoming new clients and has availability within the next 30 days, ensuring you have access to quality care that fits within your Optum insurance coverage.

Availability updated: 4/7/2026

Authentic
Direct
Open-minded
Empowering
Intelligent
Solution oriented
Warm

Specialties

Anxiety
Military/Veterans
Trauma and PTSD
I am a US Air Force veteran Clinical Social Worker. I served from 2015 to 2024 before voluntarily separating. During my USAF time I treated active duty members, their dependents, and veterans. I worked primarily in outpatient care providing 1 on 1 in person therapy, however would frequently be called to conduct emergency assessments for high risk cases involving suicide, homicide, domestic violence, and/or child abuse. I also spent several years leading a team in conducting substance abuse treatment as well as prevention programs. Through these experiences I have treated a wide range of mental health issues to include general stress/adjustment disorder to depression/anxiety/PTSD/grief.
VirtualAvailable
Warm
Authentic
Empowering
Intelligent
Solution oriented
Humorous
Open-minded
Direct
Holistic

Specialties

Anxiety
Chronic Illness
Life Transitions
+10
***Please note that my 3pm and later appts are limited. **** Hi! I'm a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor Supervisor (LPCC-S) in Ohio. I received my Master's degree from Wright State University and have been practicing in the field for 8 years. I'm a generalist that works with a wide variety of clients with different concerns ranging from adjustment to mood disorders. I have vast experience with adolescents, young adults, and adults.
VirtualAvailable
Warm
Empowering
Open-minded
Authentic
Direct
Intelligent
Solution oriented

Specialties

Depression
Life Transitions
Trauma and PTSD
+2
Hi, I'm Tiffani. I want to warmly welcome you and commend you for taking the courageous step to making yourself a priority. Life's challenges are unique to each of us, and it's not uncommon to feel overwhelmed at times. My aim is to offer a supportive and safe space where you feel heard and understood. Together, we'll explore your thoughts, feelings, and behaviors to help you overcome obstacles and work towards feeling your best.
VirtualAvailable
Solution oriented
Warm
Authentic
Empowering
Humorous
Intelligent
Open-minded

Specialties

Addiction
Anxiety
Domestic Violence
+3
Hi: My name is Barbara Doll. I have over 25 years of experience in therapy and mediation. I love to meet new clients and strive to make my sessions comfortable and, of course, without judgement. I want my sessions to be a safe, comfortable, peaceful place for clients to be able to have a safe place for people to express feelings and perhaps even identify feelings. I have a vast experience in divorce, separation and parenting issues, Domestic Abuse Issues, Depression and Anxiety Grief issues. I use Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Brief Therapy, Mindfulness and Motivational Interviewing as therapy interventions. If you are unsure about those interventions I will be happy to take time to explain them to you. Making an appointment for therapy takes a lot of courage and I congratulate you for taking this big step. I want my clients to experience a safe, non-judgemental, peaceful place where clients can talk about their history, express their feelings and talk about their dreams and hopes for the future and discover what may be standing in the way to achieve those hopes and dreams.
VirtualAvailable
Warm
Authentic
Open-minded
Humorous

Specialties

Anxiety
Depression
Older Adults
+5
Hello, I'm Brenda Do you feel overwhelmed by stress in your job, family, and social obligations? Do sometimes you feel like you are trying to make everyone else happy and/or trying to solve other peoples problems, but never have anyone to discuss your problems with? I can help. As a busy, career-driven mom, and daughter. I can relate to the stress of everyday life when you are trying to prioritize everyone else, always being the one that everyone comes to for help. And sometimes you feel overwhelmed yourself and need someone to talk to. I like a lot of people have been dealing with the same issues such as depression and anxiety. I have been learning, trained and educated over the years to help others with issue's such as these. I hold a LPCC license (Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor) with 30 years of experience in doing private practice seeing individuals exeriencing stress in their everyday lives. My approach is simple using CBT and help you take back control of your happiness. We would discuss what you can do daily to help reduce and/or cope with stressors in your life.
VirtualAvailable
Warm
Authentic
Direct
Empowering
Open-minded
Humorous
Solution oriented
Intelligent

Specialties

Addiction
Anxiety
Depression
+6
Katrina Noble Johnson is a licensed independent clinical social worker and chemical dependency counselor with over 25 years of experience. She holds a Master's degree in Clinical Social Work from the University of Cincinnati. Katrina provides specialized mental health and addiction treatment to individuals, children, families, and diverse populations, including military personnel, the homeless, and the elderly. Additionally, she has volunteered for various community and religious organizations in her area.
VirtualAvailable

Often rebooked

Warm
Authentic
Empowering
Solution oriented
Intelligent
Solution oriented
Open-minded
Direct
Open-Minded
Humorous
Holistic

Specialties

Anxiety
Depression
Women's Issues
+5
Hello! I'm so glad you're here, looking for someone to work with to help you heal and grow. It takes a lot of strength and bravery to take this step and I hope you find just what you need. I'm a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) in Southport, NC, with over 20 years of experience working with adults on issues such as anxiety, depression, life transitions and self-growth. It is truly my honor to meet people where they are and collaborate with them in a meaningful way to help them get where they want to be in their lives. My end goal is to empower you with the tools and self-knowledge you need to make lasting, positive change in your life.
VirtualAvailable
Authentic
Open-minded
Warm
Humorous
Empowering
Intelligent
Direct
Solution oriented

Specialties

Anxiety
Depression
Life Transitions
+6
I am a licensed mental health counselor with over a decade of experience helping adolescents and adults navigate anxiety, depression, and major life transitions. I have completed my PhD in Counselor Education and Supervision, which allows me to integrate advanced clinical training, research-informed practice, and real-world therapeutic experience. My work is grounded in evidence-based approaches including Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), Solution-Focused Brief Therapy (SFBT), and person-centered counseling. I strive to create a supportive, nonjudgmental space where clients can build resilience, gain clarity, and make meaningful, lasting change. ---------------------------------------- 📌 Cash Pay / Self-Pay Therapy Option 📌 Self-pay may be a good fit if you prefer: • More privacy (not billed to insurance) • More flexibility in session focus/frequency • No insurance restrictions (limits/authorizations) 📌 Self-Pay Rates: • Intake/Diagnostic Evaluation: $220 • 53-min session: $185 • 45-min session: $150 • 30-min session: $135 📌 Insurance note: Self-pay may qualify for out-of-network reimbursement depending on your plan (not guaranteed). Clients are responsible for verifying OON benefits. If I’m in-network and you choose self-pay, insurance reimbursement is not typical.
VirtualAvailable
Authentic
Empowering
Solution oriented
Direct
Warm
Intelligent
Open-minded
Humorous
Challenging
Holistic
Solution oriented

Specialties

Depression
Domestic Violence
Parenting
+2
Hello, my name is Shurla and I am a Board Licensed Clinical Social Worker and the Founder of Restorative Thoughts Counsel. I received a Master’s degree in Social Work from the University of Alabama and a Bachelor’s degree in Social Work from Oakwood University. With over a decade of experience in social services and more than seven years dedicated to mental health care, I am deeply committed to fostering healing and growth.
VirtualAvailable

Often rebooked

Empowering
Solution oriented
Direct
Warm

Specialties

Anxiety
Grief
Trauma and PTSD
+2
Deciding to seek support through counseling takes courage, and the process of finding the right therapist can be intimidating. Building a trusting relationship with a therapist can take time and I understand how difficult it can be to be vulnerable. My approach is trauma-informed, strengths-based, and Humanistic, focussed on building a therapeutic relationship rooted in trust, safety, empathy, and compassion. I utilize evidence-based methods such as CBT, CFT, mindfulness-based interventions, breath work, somatic psychotherapy, and EMDR. Whether you are looking for a safe space to talk through current stressors, or dig deeper to process past trauma, I hope to provide a safe and nurturing space, collaborating with you on your journey of healing and personal growth.
VirtualAvailable
Authentic
Intelligent
Direct
Solution oriented
Solution oriented
Warm
Open-minded
Open-Minded
Empowering
Humorous
Challenging
Holistic

Specialties

Anxiety
Depression
Trauma and PTSD
+10
I am licensed independent social worker in the state of Ohio with a supervisory designation (LISW-S). I began working with the severe and mentally ill population within a homeless shelter at age 21. I discovered a love for helping and decided to pursue a career as a clinical psychotherapist. I obtained a degree from the University of Toledo with Master of Social Work, specializing in clinical mental health and a minor in psychology. Throughout the years I have gained experience working in a variety of setting addressing mental health. Rather you are struggling with a new mental health concerns or its been a life long struggle; I will ensure there is a safe space to discuss any problems in a judgement free zone. I will utilize a variety of approaches to empower you with tools needed to take significant life steps, to reach a goal you desire.
VirtualAvailable
Authentic
Solution oriented
Warm
Intelligent
Open-minded
Empowering
Direct
Holistic

Specialties

ADHD
Anxiety
Autism
Hello, I'm Andrea Ruta, a dedicated mental health professional passionate about supporting individuals on their journey toward well-being and personal growth. I specialize in working with neurodiverse clients, including those with ADHD and autism, providing tailored strategies that honor each person's unique strengths and needs. In addition to my work with neurodiverse individuals, I support clients navigating anxiety, depression, and self-care challenges, as well as those experiencing life transitions and personal growth opportunities. My approach integrates evidence-based practices with mindfulness, nature-based techniques, and spiritual exploration, fostering a holistic healing process that considers the mind, body, and spirit. Whether you're looking to build stronger boundaries, enhance communication skills, or create a more balanced and fulfilling life, I am here to guide and support you. Together, we'll cultivate the tools and insights needed to navigate life's challenges and foster meaningful growth. My compassionate, client-centered philosophy ensures that each session is tailored to your unique needs. I believe in the power of collaboration and will work alongside you to develop strategies aligned with your goals and values, helping you build the life you envision.
VirtualAvailable
Authentic
Open-minded
Empowering
Warm
Humorous
Intelligent
Solution oriented
Direct
Open-Minded
Challenging

Specialties

Addiction
Mood Disorders
Trauma and PTSD
I have had the privilege of working with with a broad range of clients for over 5 years in the counseling field. This experience has been beneficial and rewarding in my journey of understanding and providing strong clinical guidance towards a wide range people. I love to take a multi-modal and flexible approach to psychotherapy so that I can better serve each individual.
VirtualAvailable

Often rebooked

Open-minded
Warm
Challenging
Solution oriented

Specialties

Men's Issues
Mood Disorders
Spirituality
+10
My name is Jeffrey, and I am a Licensed Professional Counselor in Michigan, and a Licensed Social Worker and Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor in Ohio. I have also been an ordained Lutheran pastor since 1989. My professional career began as an Associate Pastor in a Lutheran church in northwest Ohio, where I focused on youth ministry, Christian Education, and pastoral counseling. I entered Social Work in 1995 when I began work as a Family Worker in a residential facility for hard to place juvenile offenders, and then worked in a few outpatient counseling agencies providing mental health and substance use disorder services. I have experience working with people of all ages on general mental health issues, such as managing depression and anxiety, and have specialized in the areas of PTSD recovery and domestic violence and sexual abuse victims and offenders. Throughout my counseling career, I have maintained activity in ministry. I was trained in Clinical Pastoral Counseling and also have had training as a Spiritual Director. My counseling approach is generally non-directive, using a combination of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Motivational Interviewing in a Solution Focused, Client Centered frame work. I can incorporate spirituality as much or as little as the client desires, from not referencing spirituality at all to fully engaging the spiritual dimension of life. As a caring, empathetic listener, people find it easy to talk with me and be open about what needs attention in their lives. I look forward to working with you!
VirtualAvailable
Warm
Authentic
Intelligent
Solution oriented
Direct
Empowering
Solution oriented
Open-minded
Open-Minded
Challenging

Specialties

Anger Management
Anxiety
Trauma and PTSD
+18
Hi there, I go by Michele. Life can be difficult at times. You might feel like it can never get better and like you have to get through it on your own. My job is to help you get through these difficult times and to give you the skills you need to feel empowered to get through any obstacle that comes your way. I have years of expereience helping people from all walks of life find their idea of happiness and making it a reality. I work hard at being flexible and providing you with the kind of help that you want and need. Whether you're dealing with current or past issues, or cycles of anxiety and depression, I'm here to help. Seeking therapy can feel scary but you're making the right choice. You deserve a safe space to heal and grow. In our sessions together, I'll meet you with compassion and evidence-based techniques so you can overcome the hangups and habits holding you back. Let's work together!
VirtualAvailable
Solution oriented
Authentic
Direct
Challenging
Empowering
Holistic
Open-minded
Warm

Specialties

Anxiety
Child or Adolescent
Depression
I have been a therapist since 2000 and licensed since 2008. I work with both children, adolescents, and adults, as well as older adults. I will work with you to explore thoughts, feelings, and problems on a more internal and psychological level which I believe has a longer lasting impact while still clearing up the more overt behaviors. I use an eclectic style that includes a psychodymamic approach, cognitive-behavioral therapy, self-empowerment techniques, meditation and mindfulness. My sense of humor and relaxed, informal manner can help you feel safe and comfortable. I like to incorporate meditation, mindfulness, and positive visualization. With young to middle adults, we may address personal and career goals, job stress, and relationships, with older adults, transitioning from the workforce to retirement and managing grief and loss. If you are in the Cincinnati area, we do have the option of in-person/office based sessions, which we can discuss at the first session.
VirtualAvailable
Warm
Authentic
Open-minded
Solution oriented
Intelligent
Empowering
Direct
Challenging

Specialties

Anxiety
Depression
Trauma and PTSD
+10
Beginning therapy is a courageous step, and I don’t take that for granted. I'm here to help ensure your journey is meaningful and personalized. My work focuses on supporting individuals through trauma, life transitions, as well as challenges related to anxiety, depression, and grief. I use a collaborative, strengths-based, client-centered approach, customizing each session to fit your specific needs and goals. You’ll find a safe, supportive space where you can truly be yourself whenever you are ready to begin.
VirtualAvailable
Warm
Open-minded
Authentic
Humorous
Solution oriented
Empowering
Intelligent

Specialties

Anxiety
Depression
Self Esteem
+10
I am Brenda Pinson, a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor with Supervisory Endorsement (LPCC-S) in Ohio, with over 15 years of experience. I am passionate about helping individuals navigate life’s challenges and discover new strengths. My Approach: I offer a person-centered, collaborative approach tailored to your unique needs. Using positive psychology, Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy, Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT/Tapping), and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, I help you uncover solutions and develop skills at your own pace. Think of me as your co-pilot on this journey—offering direction, empathy, and support. Areas of Expertise: I work with elders, adults, and teens, addressing issues such as adjustment, anger management, anxiety, depression, grief, stress, relaxation, women’s issues, and life transitions. My experience includes crisis intervention, anger management groups, and domestic violence offender groups. What to Expect: My goal is to create a welcoming, empowering environment where you feel supported and understood. Together, we’ll work to help you branch out, find balance, and move forward with confidence.
VirtualAvailable
Humorous
Authentic
Intelligent
Empowering
Solution oriented
Open-minded
Direct
Warm
Open-Minded
Solution oriented
Challenging
Holistic

Specialties

Anxiety
Depression
Mood Disorders
+3
I am an experienced Motivational Therapist with a Positive Psychology approach, often described as both a Listener and Life Coach. My specialties include working with ADHD/ADD, Male Issues, Anger, Depression, Anxiety, Teens Issues, Couples Counseling, Grief, Trauma, Abuse, Addictions, Low Self-Esteem, as well as Career Counseling and Family Therapy. I invite you to call or email GROW to schedule a session soon! Set an appointment time that works for you. Morning, Afternoon and Evening sessions 7 days a week! Adults, older teens, and couples are welcome. I have 20 years of experience as a Counselor and Clinical Social Worker and I try to provide a Positive and even Fun approach that I hope you will enjoy! Motivational Therapy and Positive Psychology work and they can be applied to work for you. Support, insight, awareness, and growth, are associated with therapy for a reason. There IS help for a wide variety of problems that may have you feeling anxious or hopeless today.
VirtualAvailable
Authentic
Direct
Open-minded
Intelligent
Warm
Humorous
Challenging
Empowering

Specialties

Autism
Coping Skills
Trauma and PTSD
+5
Every client is unique and is facing their own distinctive challenges. Therefore each treatment plan should be personalized and individualized. An ideal client is one who comes to counseling with an open mind and is ready to try new approaches and coping skills. Each person will benefit differently from a wide variety of approaches. Together we can and will find the right strategies that work best for you. There is not a "normal" or "standard" cookie-cutter path. It is a journey! I have experience working with issues as grief, anxiety, anger, mood, neurological, trauma, relationship issues, substance use disorders, and more. I am dually independently licensed and passionate about providing the utmost quality of services to people struggling with mental health, substance use disorders and dual diagnoses. I have over 10 years of practice, including a wide array of experience, working with clients of all age groups individually, with couples and in groups. The therapeutic environment is a safe place for clients and their families to experience their vulnerabilities while sharing their stories. I use Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, existential, EMDR, and Person-Centered treatment interventions and I have found that when using these interventions, people begin to realize the strength to overcome challenges.
VirtualAvailable

Often rebooked

Authentic
Humorous
Direct
Warm
Intelligent
Empowering
Open-minded
Solution oriented
Challenging

Specialties

Child or Adolescent
Men's Issues
Women's Issues
+10
My name is Gary Youssef and I have been providing mental/behavioral health services for children, adolescents, adults and families for 25+ years. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing mental/behavioral health issues impacting children and adults such as: career/school stressors, depression, anxiety, relational issues, parenting, family systems, medical challenges, healthy lifestyles, etc. I worked for 14 years as a therapist and program manager at the central outpatient psychiatry clinic at Rady Children's Hospital-San Diego which is ranked as one of the top 10 children's hospitals in the United States by U.S. News and World report. I have helped provide behavioral health services for over 10,000 children, adults and families throughout San Diego County. In addition, I helped support U.S. service members and their families while working as a military family life counselor at Naval Medical Center-San Diego in Pediatrics. I also volunteered at San Diego Unified School District and coached little league. I love being a father to my two awesome sons and I enjoy athletics and cooking in my free time. I am practical and eclectic therapist combining elements from theoretical orientations such as cognitive behavioral therapy and solution focused therapy to help clients of all ages. The vast majority of my clients report that they had a good experience working with me and describe me as experienced, professional, friendly, kind, helpful and effective.
VirtualAvailable
Warm
Authentic
Empowering
Intelligent
Open-minded
Solution oriented
Open-Minded
Solution oriented
Direct
Challenging
Holistic
Humorous

Specialties

Women's Issues
Hey there! I'm Tiffinie! My mission as a therapist is to empower my clients with an unbiased, supportive, and compassionate approach to therapy that works to identify and disrupt the limiting beliefs that we and society tend to impose on ourselves. My hope is to create new pathways to healing and growth in order for you to improve your overall well-being as well as your relationships. You are more than deserving of a safe space to heal and grow towards your full potential. It is your right and your responsibility to initate change in your life. Let's get started on your journey together!
VirtualAvailable
Authentic
Warm
Solution oriented
Intelligent
Empowering
Open-minded
Direct
Open-Minded
Solution oriented
Humorous

Specialties

ADHD
Anxiety
Autism
+9
I am a Licensed Independent Social Worker (LISW) who obtained my master's degree in social work (MSW) from the University of Connecticut in 2013. I started my career in child welfare and animal assisted therapy, and now work with adults ranging from college age to geriatric. The main focus of my practice is in ADHD, as an ADHDer myself, I have a great deal of lived experience as well as training and knowledge on the most recent research. We are learning more and more that ADHD Is not a disorder, but rather another type of brain, and while functioning can be affected (and often is), there is so much potential to be found, and with the right information and guidance, your ADHD brain can thrive! I can be a space for you to process what it means to be ADHD, how it has affected your life, (for good and for bad), and how you can move forward coming from a place of strength and and knowledge.
VirtualAvailable
Authentic
Empowering
Warm
Solution oriented
Humorous
Intelligent
Direct
Open-Minded
Holistic
Solution oriented
Open-minded

Specialties

Coping Skills
Depression
Trauma and PTSD
+5
Have you experienced trauma, abuse, relationship challenges or loss? Do you struggle with codependency? Do you have difficulty setting healthy boundaries? Do you want to build self-esteem and confidence? Have your attempts to create meaningful changes in your life been met, repeatedly with short term-success? Are you losing hope with the prospect of a prosperous meaningful future? Hi! My name is Cassie, and I'm a Christian, faith-based therapist licensed and located in the sunny (and sometimes rainy!) state of Florida. The questions posed above speak to challenges many of us are regularly faced with, but may find it difficult to speak about. Instead, we may find ourselves harboring feeling of shame and guilt which blocks us from pursuing and receiving the help we need. Well, here’s the good news! Therapy with me is conducted within a safe, judgment-free space, where I provide opportunities for you to face those challenges and express those feelings. . I believe in the power of faith to guide healing, and I am honored to walk alongside individuals who desire therapy that aligns with their beliefs. At each stage of treatment, we’ll collaborate to assess and engage in a way which best fits you. With over six (6) years of professional experience, and a host of treatment methods to rely on, you can rest assured in my ability to meet you uniquely in your place of need. Ultimately, my desire is to help you reach a place of freedom and peace, where you can begin experiencing incremental yet impactful improvements to your overall wellbeing so your life and relationships can bear the fruit they were always meant to.
VirtualAvailable
Authentic
Warm
Humorous
Solution oriented
Open-minded
Solution oriented
Empowering

Specialties

Depression
Grief
Self Esteem
+7
I am a licensed Clinical Social Worker in North Carolina, Ohio, and Alabama, with a Master's degree from the Joint Program at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro and North Carolina A&T State University. As a biracial and bicultural individual of White and Native American heritage (an enrolled member of the Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina), I bring a unique perspective to my work. I have 15 years of experience in mental health, having served in various community roles, and I also volunteer with my local Native American organization. I specialize in supporting adults dealing with anxiety, depression, family conflict, stress, motivation, and self-esteem. With my background, I also focus on providing care for Indigenous individuals, as well as those who are bicultural or biracial. I am experienced in working with people navigating grief, loss, and caregiver stress. My approach centers on creating a safe, non-judgmental space where clients can openly share their thoughts and feelings. I am committed to supporting individuals who identify as bicultural, BIPOC, QTBIPOC, LGBTQIA+, ability-diverse, and all those who have been historically marginalized or minoritized.
VirtualAvailable
Frequently asked questions

Why filter by Ohio rather than a city like Columbus?

When looking for online therapy, you can see anyone that is credentialed in Ohio. We want you to find the best fit, therefore, Grow Therapy shows available therapists across Ohio from Cincinnati to Cleveland! If you’d rather see someone in-person, you can change the filter from virtual and find a therapist near you in Ohio.

Will my therapist take Optum?

Yes! If you use Optum you’ll be asked to verify your Member ID at the time you book the appointment. However, if you don’t have Optum you can select cash. Our therapists will have their cost of appointment on their profile. Individual session costs will vary.

How does the Specialty Filter work? Can I find a therapist that focuses on a specific issue?

The specialty filter is optional. You don’t need to check any boxes to see a provider. However, fit is very important when selecting an online therapist. If you have knowledge or experience to recognize what specialties you may need.

Why use Gender, Age, and Identities filters?

Finding a provider with a similar life experience can be beneficial because it can be easier to establish rapport and potentially be understood quicker and clearer.

What happens during the first therapy session?

Your first therapy session is for you and your therapist to meet each other and to ask any questions that you have about the counseling process. This is where you can expect your therapist to do the same as they will ask questions to gain insight into your specific situation. In this first session the therapist is doing their part to gather as much information so they can better assess if they are able to meet your therapeutic needs. Depending upon your provider's specialty, you may also discuss the methods the therapist will use. For additional information on therapy methods, please visit the Grow Therapy Help Center.Some people feel nervous before their first appointment, and that is totally normal! Coming prepared with a list of questions for your therapist may help. Remember, you're taking a brave step by seeking therapy, and it is okay to be nervous as you try something new.